Nathan Gooden! Ep 8 of The Vault Cast!

One of the finest artists working today, and co-founder of Vault: Nathan Gooden! 

You’ll hear the origin of Barbaric you never knew before! His secret origin, his perspective of the founding Vault, self publishing stories, and which characters he would like to get his hands on!

PLUS, Nathan’s biggest influence, collection he can’t live without, and an artist homework assignment you need to be assigned if you’re looking to become a professional artist! 

This is THE episode for any aspiring artist and a must for Barbaric fans!

If you would like your comic shop featured on our "Shop Shout Outs" segment, please email us at podcast@vaultcomics.com

Don't forget to rate and subscribe!

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Transcript

Daniel Crary: Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen to the Vault Cast the official podcast of all things Vault comics and beyond. We are joined once again by our fearless leader, our commander in chief. You know him, you love him, Mr.

Daniel Crary: Adrian Wassel. Well,

Adrian Wassel: Oh, it's going great. Great to be back.

Daniel Crary: this is a special one. , I don't want to put you on the spot, to gush about family, but, this episode features the man, the myth, the legend, Mr. Nathan Gooden. what can people expect from this conversation, Adrian?

Adrian Wassel: expect a conversation with a modern master. Nathan is truly one of the greatest artists alive today. And frankly, and I think one of the greatest artists to ever, take up sequential storytelling. I've known Nate my entire life. he's my cousin, co founder of Vault, sort of like a brother to me.

Adrian Wassel: was there the day I was born. has seen me, you know, run around the kitchen with my diaper falling off. so he's got lots of terrible stories to tell of my youth. 

Daniel Crary: We tell a lot of those in this episode. He really gets into the embarrassing family stories. On you specifically, it's like half the episode.

Adrian Wassel: Excellent. That's great. That's perfect. You definitely never mooned any cars with my little white butt.

Adrian Wassel: So I think the thing to say about Nate is that I've never seen any artists in my entire life, command so many different styles with such ease that almost gets taken for granted. And I have to constantly remind myself as an editor in chief, an editor in friend, family member who's just lucky enough to work with him, that is such a rare generational talent.

Adrian Wassel: Nate can really command any medium and any style and do it so well that you forget that the way he does it is through just an absolute mastery of form and technique and, his process. He has an extremely robust. And you're going to get to hear about that. You're going to get to hear about character design and how he approaches art, how he thinks about, every series as a story and a visual world that you're going to live in.

Adrian Wassel: I've seen Nate's pages, you know, from the earliest, days of just sort of drawing fan art to creating entire worlds like barbaric that, you know, hundreds of thousands of people read and love. I would say like, tune in if you If are an artist or anyone who appreciates the craft of sequential storytelling like this is the episode for you because Nathan has a grasp of it that just honestly very few people have or ever will have.

Daniel Crary: Couldn't have said it better myself. Without any further ado, please enjoy our sit down with Mr. Nathan Gooden.

Mhm.

Daniel Crary: We are joined by the man, the myth, the legend, the one and only Nathan Gooden. Mr. Gooden, how are you today?

Nathan Gooden: first of all, thank you for having me thrilled to be here. Episodes at this point have been great, so I'm excited to join the show.

Daniel Crary: Well, when you threateningly slacked me and said, have me on the show or you're fired, I felt like it was the right thing to do. I'm kidding, I'M kidding. uh, unfamiliar, Nathan is not only the incredible artist and co creator of Barbaric, he's worked on many Vault series, including Zojikon, The Rush covers.

Daniel Crary: Stuff coming out, all the time from this guy. But Nathan, as you heard on our previous episode with Adrienne Wassel, is one of the co founders of Vaults. He's one of the big dogs. I like to think of you as the silent partner, Nate. Because you're always listening.

Nathan Gooden: is true. you know, we have a good team, good core , me, Adrian, and Damon started this thing and I believe in not having too many voices coming from the top. I like to listen and I'll give my feedback through Damien or through Adrian or, you know, wherever the topic is and I can do it that way rather than it was like, Hey here's another email on top of the email you just got, you know?

Daniel Crary: Well, we heard a little bit about the founding of the company with Adrian on the last episode, and we'll hear a little bit more about it on our next episode when Damien joins us. But I wanted to get your perspective on those early days, because you broke into comics by doing your own self published works to begin with, right?

Nathan Gooden: Correct. You know, I had our degree and film degree and it was just like a passion for storytelling and Adrian is graduating the same time. Damien is graduating the same time.

Nathan Gooden: And we all grew up loving comics together. So it was like, Oh let's start with a comic. And so he's made one that turned into the turn into three that turned into four and eventually became small publisher and that shows we started getting approached for, from other creators of like, Hey, we want to work with you or we would love for you to publish our thing.

Nathan Gooden: So that was kind of the early days of Vault and CME as it was.

Daniel Crary: And before you really were, you know, in your postgraduate life making comics and stuff, like you were comics obsessed as a kid. You were obviously big into movies, big into animation, you were drawing a lot from a young age. What were some of the first things you remember drawing really vividly?

Nathan Gooden: So my dad was an art teacher. High school art teacher. So I grew up with like a paintbrush, pencil, paper in my hand And I remember one of my favorite memories was getting up in the morning Sunday mornings.

Nathan Gooden: With my mom, she would be sitting at the kitchen table doing her bills and I would pick up this paper and I would read all the comic book strips Calvin and Hobbes, things like that. And I remember just that was my early days of seeing this and trying to draw them and like copy them, things like that.

Nathan Gooden: And then that turned into like Saturday morning cartoons with the X Men animated show, Ninja Turtles, all that stuff. And so like, I grew up like, that was my weekend was Really just consuming cartoons and comic strips. And then I remember, cause I grew up in the country. So like, I remember they built a 7 Eleven that was walking distance to me.

Nathan Gooden: And that was like the one outlet I had. And they had a spinner rack of comics in it. And so that was my early introduction into like comic books. I would walk there with like a dollar to buy some Skittles and sit there and just read comics off the spinner rack for a couple hours. And that started the love right there.

Daniel Crary: What were some of those early titles that were on this 7 Eleven spinner rack?

Nathan Gooden: nothing was in order. You know, it was just random issues. But I remember some silver surfer issues really grabbed my attention. And then I remember the one that Really made me have to buy it was Weapon X. That was the first one that got me that I was like, okay, this art is meaningful to me.

Nathan Gooden: That was what Barry Windsor Smith, I believe. And like, I remember that was the first one that had to be like, oh, I have to have this. Like this has to come home with me. So, issues like that. And then some Green Lantern as well.

Daniel Crary: All right, I'm gonna look up this 7 Eleven and try and find their diamond or their lunar number and I'll give them a call and see what they're ordering for vault these days.

Nathan Gooden: I wish Spinner actually come back in places like that. I loved it.

Daniel Crary: Right? I love a good spinner rack. Tim Sealy has spinner racks in his office. And I think that is like, The coolest shit to just have spinner rags full of comics you've done like that's pretty neat

Nathan Gooden: That is pretty dope, I like that. I might have to take a note from that when I get my own office.

Daniel Crary: Oh, yeah, dude, getting you spinner rags. go on the hunt. We'll get on eBay. We'll go wherever We'll find old spinner rags and we'll get you set up nice so you're a kid you're going you're grabbing comics You're drawing all the time. You're doing your own takes on all of these characters Do you remember when you first tried to make something wholly original?

Daniel Crary: The first time you tried to do something that wasn't based explicitly on an existing character?

Nathan Gooden: Not specifically, but I remember it was around the time of Final Fantasy VII. The video game for play I remember playing that game and just having my mind completely blown of like what's the story was, the environments, everything. And at that point I was getting a little bit better at art.

Nathan Gooden: So like, I remember some of my friends would be like, well, would you draw this weekend . So I remember the round then was kind of the time I was really developing my own stories, my own little shorts, my own little characters, things like that.

Daniel Crary: as you're getting better and trying to like Branch out and do more things. You're getting inspired all over the place. When did you really start to become aware of artists who were already working? Like who were some of those first folks that like you noticed their name in the masthead or on the cover of a book where you're like, that's an artist I love.

Daniel Crary: This is an artist I'm going to pay attention to and knowing them by name.

Nathan Gooden: I mean, I could go to the obvious answer. Jim Lee. our generation was like, Oh, you can draw. But a little bit more personal for me. Frank Frazetta, when I first saw his covers for prose I knew that was when I wanted to make a career out of it, Oh, This is what life's telling me. This is what I'm going to do for a living. even if book I had no idea what it was about, if he did a cover, painted a cover for it, I bought it, I collected it, you know?

Daniel Crary: I mean, you can see that influence pretty clearly in a lot of the work on Barbaric. Frazetta's baked in the 

Nathan Gooden: absolutely, like, whenever I'm like lost in my own head or like lost in a world where I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing with this character or something like that, I always just go back and like flip through my first edit collection that's one collection that's always come with me no matter where I've gone. remember I was in like a little shoe box in an apartment in Brooklyn, New York for a while, but the one collection I could bring with me was I had to bring Rosetta. Like I have all of his Lord of the Rings prints all those things have to come out with me wherever I'm going.

Nathan Gooden: every kind of story I tell, it starts kind of there. And then I'll do a lot more research, a lot more reading around you know, whatever writer I'm pairing with at that time, I'll do more research, but it always starts kind of right there of like, that was my first love.

Daniel Crary: That's the touchstone. That's home.

Nathan Gooden: when you're lost, just return home for one, second you'll, find your way.

Daniel Crary: speaking of home, obviously grew up with Damien and Adrienne. you know, might as well be brothers. You spent an enormous amount of time together and now, run a company together. You co founded a company together. Running a family company. it's an interesting dynamic, Because you obviously have a deep, long abiding personal relationship, and then you've got the business relationship on top of it. What were the early days of vault like for you co founding with relatives with your cousins? Like, what were those early conversations? Like, what were those early days?

Daniel Crary: Like, was there a marked change in your dynamic? Or did this feel just like the most natural evolution of things?

Nathan Gooden: It was fairly natural just kind of felt right from the moment we said jump, like, it was like, oh, this feels normal, this feels right, we should do this, let's keep going, one of the earliest things we all said and our ability agent was one that said it first of like, you know, there's a difference between a family business and a business family and we want to be the proper one.

Nathan Gooden: that was number one rule was like, we're family first. we do this because we love it, not because we're trying to get rich or break the bank know, we're here because we love it, we love each other, and we're going to make this thing because of our love.

Daniel Crary: I mean, that's pretty good foundation to, build from and probably saw you through what I can only imagine was a pretty challenging first couple of years. Like starting a company is always hard, but especially starting a company doing periodical publishing and with where the market was in 2017. Like, do you have any memories from those early days where you thought, damn, this is really hard.

Nathan Gooden: our first few shows, we did Ape in San Francisco. that was where we were, Oh, this is ton of work. This is not just me getting to draw, like, there's a business side to this as well. But I think, you know, a lot of my nervousness came from the fact that I trust Damien and Adrian.

Nathan Gooden: Not just the fact that I trust them because they're family, but I trust that they did their homework. I trust that they did The research before we'd jump. that was the key thing for us, was just being like, trust me to give you a good product. Trust me to give you good pages, and I'll trust you to get the show going and get the show lined up and just tell me what my flight is.

Nathan Gooden: You know what, and I'll be there. So trust was a big thing in the beginning you know, if it was anyone else, I don't think it would've worked.

Daniel Crary: dear listener Nathan has continued that legacy of trust. And when I tell him, need you at this show that's usually his response is just tell me when to get there. Just tell me when my flight is which I appreciate. , it's a nice energy to work with.

Nathan Gooden: It's industry is hard enough. I try to make it a little bit easier, you know what I mean?

Daniel Crary: Yeah, I think team player describes you better than just about anyone I've worked with. I'm not, , just trying to flatter you because the camera's on, but like, you know, everyone knows you're a talented guy. We got eyes and can see the art, but, anybody listening, Nate's amazing to work with.

Daniel Crary: you ever have the opportunity, count yourself lucky you're gonna have a good time and a good product by the end of it. OnE of the things that I think has been a hallmark of your art that I noticed immediately, before we'd ever met, before I was working with Vault in any formal capacity Is your ability to have so many unique and fully fleshed out characters on the page, you know, it's the old trope, like Superman and Batman are drawn exactly the same.

Daniel Crary: Just 1 has a curling glasses, they just look identical, but you do such a detailed job of giving bit characters walk on characters. I'm thinking about the waitress in the opening of the wrong kind of righteous 1 shot that just. Fully fleshed out, fully realized, fully designed, and with such a unique face, you're so good at making faces individual.

Daniel Crary: So rather than making you accept a compliment, which will make you uncomfortable, what advice would you give to other artists to Try and capture unique faces to get each of their characters feeling like it's not just the same You know model in a different wig and outfit.

Nathan Gooden: Well first of all, I appreciate that. one of my goals always is to make these rich environments, rich worlds. , I think that's one of the beauties of working in on independent comics is I'm not beholden to a style or like. An aesthetic look for a world. It's like, if you're working in Batman, Bruce Williams has to look a certain way, For an independent world like this it's always thinking about their background, the opening of One Kind of Righteous the barmaid as an example for me, it was like, okay, does she like her job or does she hate her job, you know, so it's like a little checklist I go down before designing a character or like, even if it's just a throwaway character, it's like quick checklist, you know, it might not be 10 bullet points long, it might be three bullet points long of like, okay, she hates her job.

Nathan Gooden: She's been there too long and doesn't like barbarians and Owen and all this stuff, so, huge personality traits you can impact on a page of, like, okay, she's probably older because she's been there too long, she's smoking because she hates being there, she doesn't really care if you like her or not, she's smoking because she wants to smoke, you know what I mean, like, so what if ashes fall on your hamburger, who cares?

Nathan Gooden: She doesn't care. Of course not. And then, that just dictates kind of where, like, I take the page I've always liked unique looking characters. I think adds to the story. I think, more inclusion is always better. I mean, that's one of the things at Vault we love is we love inclusion and I think like having a wide variety of characters, colors, shapes personalities, like I think it's important.

Daniel Crary: now Specifically with the technical aspect of it. How does one get good at drawing different types of faces? What's a good practice to get into that? You can tell this is a leading question because you've told me this before

Nathan Gooden: Yeah, I can tell you it was literal homework assignments from college. It was go to the mall for an hour and sketch everyone in the food court. That was your homework assignment for night. You had to go, you had to draw everyone in the food court. Yes, I got looked at like, why are you staring at me?

Nathan Gooden: I'm like, sorry, I'm drawing, don't mind me. and then it went from seeing how people move and interact with each other in the world and like Oh, look at this posture. This person sits with like, look at this posture they sit with and they're eating. And, you know, hands and faces are very expressive.

Nathan Gooden: And like, for me, that was capturing that, like the hands and faces of people of like, everyone's so unique and you have to be able to , tell her all their stories. Cause they all have great stories. You know, everyone in the world has a great story to tell and just being able to do all that. And then, homework assignment got harder. Once it was like, okay, two minutes, you have to get there Mike Manley was my professor and he's like if a guy jumps off a building and you can't draw him before he hits the ground, you're not very good.

Daniel Crary: wow, where did you study with him?

Nathan Gooden: DCAD Delaware College of Art and Design.

Daniel Crary: Nice. that's an intensive regimen.

Nathan Gooden: Yeah, His assignments were pretty rough, but they were needed, 

Daniel Crary: you spoke to movement and how characters move and everything. And you have a background in film as well. And I was curious how film and television, like it's influenced. Your style, specifically your framing, the way that you place characters in scene and in panel, how does cinema play into your work as a comic book artist?

Nathan Gooden: specifically, working on animated films for a while, and things like that just movement always intrigued me because, you watch an animation, and a lot of people don't realize how much work , actually goes into that, you know, it's 30 frames a second, so for one second of one person taking one step, there's 30 drawings that go in there.

Nathan Gooden: So there's 30 stages of one step and it's like, where in that 30 frames is this panel? And that's kind of where like, approached you know, the camera work of the comic book is, you know, where am I in this one motion? Because emotion , there's wind up, there's follow through, there's squash and stretch.

Nathan Gooden: There's all kinds of elements that go into one simple movement, like taking a step, they'll let their weight has to shift to one side. Their head tilts and then like every single person has a different way to take that same step as well. You know what I mean?

Nathan Gooden: Like, so there's no one way to take that one step. So that's kind of where, like, I love the movement and the capturing of people's movements.

Daniel Crary: So looking at how movement has played such a key role in your work on the page, directors or cinematographers or anyone whose work in film or animation You know, had an impact on you, you know, maybe not to the degree that, you know, for Zetta has, like you mentioned before, but anyone you can think of by name whose work you're like, Oh, I got to have a Kurosawa moment in this or like, Oh, this is my Quentin Tarantino shot for this one.

Nathan Gooden: that's a good one. Of course, Kurosawa was great, but for me like the biggest influence probably be really Scott, early, you know, alien. I burned that DVD out, you know what I mean? Like those claustrophobic tight shots that just make you feel so trapped on this ship and then you realize you're trapped on there with spoiler alert, there's Android and then another alien. you know, you're just sweating watching that movie and gonna say like everything he's made has been like, my gosh, I have the revelation but like, yeah, he's definitely probably the one that comes at mine first.

Daniel Crary: on those tight cinematic moments are also reinforce that character work you were talking about, like really getting in on people's faces and expressions and understanding them on a deeper level, that tight. Claustrophobic cinematography is like, oh, here's this character and you're going to know them very intimately from feet away.

Nathan Gooden: I think that really played into the book the rush I did with size barrier. That was very much like I want to really focus on faces and acting and. wanted those kind of like Ridley Scott moments where like there's this big, swooping, beautiful landscape of this, you know, Yukon, snow covered territory, and then you do close up on this gold miner's face who looks like he hasn't bathed in a year and a half, that's a huge jump to make, and so like I really wanted to focus in on Okay, I want this guy to feel dirty and exhausted and he's on his last leg, 

Daniel Crary: And the juxtaposition with that and pristine landscape that's sweeping and huge has that effect I think, unlike, you know, the claustrophobia of Alien, you get a similar feeling of isolation. Where you have this huge thing, and then you get to see the dirty, nasty, small, human point of view within that massive landscape.

Daniel Crary: if you haven't read The Rush, folks, and you're a horror fan, like, at all, are you doing? on,

Nathan Gooden: that one I will say I'm super proud of the way that book turned out. It was a huge challenge for me in all honesty once I got the script from size barrier. I was kind of intimidated almost You know, I'm like the script was so phenomenal. I'm like Am I really the right one for this? You know, but I am super proud of the way it came out.

Nathan Gooden: I think it came out great.

Daniel Crary: Well, but he writes in such an approachable, down to earth way, with very commonplace language. I can't imagine why that would have been intimidating.

Nathan Gooden: language just itself, the amount of research he did. I mean, like, I'm talking 30 folders of research photos and documents and historical figures. And like, you know, when you read the opening issue of rush, Those are real places. That's real people.

Nathan Gooden: Those are real things. You know what I mean? Like,

Daniel Crary: Nah, real spider monsters.

Nathan Gooden: might've added that a little bit,

Mhm. 

Daniel Crary: Well, I'm sure having a good time chatting with Mr. Nathan Gooden, hearing all about the company and its process, and fabulous art device. Huh?

Kyle Faucher: Can I make the code? I want to make up the code for this commercial. 

Daniel Crary: I'll let you make up the code. 

Kyle Faucher: Axe hole. 

Daniel Crary: Use it in a sentence, Kyle.

Kyle Faucher: Dan, you're an axe hole. I've

Daniel Crary: I got respect for you. I'm a little mad about it, but I got respect for you. Alright, use the code AXEHOLE to get 20 percent off the first three volumes of Barbaric. Please don't hold that against me. Kyle picked it, not me. 

Kyle Faucher: I've been sitting on that for a whole month.

Daniel Crary: Well, Kyle, I'm here to tell you it was worth it. You know me. I'll always commit to the bit. So, don't be an axehole. Use the code and get that discount. Now back to Nate. 

Mhm.

Daniel Crary: you've developed all these tools. You've grown so much as an artist. You've established Vault as One of the biggest players in independent comics. So now, today, 2024, what is your daily work routine like?

Daniel Crary: cry in the morning. no, genuinely love my job. I think it's a privilege to do what I do. And I try to remind myself of that, but I wake up first couple of hours are going to be Emails, slack messages, helping, you know, the team member that needs something, you know, with print review, whatever it Then the next part, my day is going to be about six or seven hours of just drawing. Just, you know, if I'm inking that day or if if I'm doing page layouts that day, cover work that day. And then in the final, like two, three, four ish hours are going to be meeting up with Tim Daniels.

Daniel Crary: Chatting through whatever's next on the horizon. basically starting to lay out my work for the next day. So if it's another page I got to ink, I'll be doing layouts, things like that. 

Daniel Crary: Because in addition to being the senior artist in residence, you're always working on a vault book you do a lot of art direction. So what's that like to weigh in on other books that are in various stages of development and provide your perspective to other artists who are working in the vault playground?

Nathan Gooden: honestly really, really the most rewarding part, I think, of the job right now. Like, I don't do it as much as I used to just because I'm so, buried with, you know, other things. And I think Tim Daniels does a fantastic job with this as well. Really just trying to get the best out of, the teams.

Nathan Gooden: Saying like, hey, try this, try that, or like, hey, what do you think of this? And like, for the most part, everyone's receptive to that. cause I'm not saying by any means, hey, this is the way it's done here. Do this or you're gone, or your book's getting canned, you know what I mean?

Nathan Gooden: No, it's more of like, hey, I'm here to help, like, use me as a resource, you know? Like. If you're struggling with the page layout, like if you don't know how to figure out how to get, you know, a five panels onto a page on this way, then I can help you. You know what I mean? Like I've drawn thousands of pages of comic books.

Nathan Gooden: I can probably have an idea of how to fix it that's more of like just a helping hand, like a tool in Photoshop, you know, use me if you need it, 

Daniel Crary: You have a couple of unique relationships that sort of combine both your work as an artist and your work in art direction. I'm thinking specifically of having other people draw barbaric, having Robert Wilson, the fourth come in, having Corinne Howell come in, like having other people come into your, sandbox.

Daniel Crary: Don't worry, listener. I know it's 20 minutes in, but we're talking about barbaric. Now We're here. Don't worry. You know, this is obviously very common in comics for lots of different people to carry the torch of a specific character, but it's less common in independent comics to have sustained multiple artists coming in to create our own work like this.

Daniel Crary: So what was, that process been like to invite other people into this world to play and interacting with them, coaching them, helping them with things, and then Seeing what they do with it, see what do with this world that you and Mike have created.

Nathan Gooden: with barbaric, I really, this is my own personal goal. You know, this was just, I never said it out loud to anyone, but it was just like, when you think of certain independent studios or certain studios, they have an icon, you know, and I wanted like, when you see barbaric, you know, it's vault or you see vault, you know, barbarics there, you know what I mean?

Nathan Gooden: Like, and so part of that is just kind of forcing it down people's throats, and for me, I can't keep up with Mike writing wise, the dude writes insanely fast. And so it was, hey, I need help with keeping up, you know, story wise and like, we came up with these other worlds, these other characters and I'm like, Mike, don't have time to do this, you know, and my gears are turning and I'm like, you know, This is an opportunity to really spin off some other characters and like really give some backstory, some side quests, things like that.

Nathan Gooden: I kind of create a menu of items rather than like, hey, this is what the chef's cooking tonight. It's like, Hey, here's a menu. you know, you're looking for a female led story, boom, we got it looking for male led story, boom, you got it, you know, like, but it's all encompassed in barbaric, , and I don't know how Mike does it, but Mike keeps it all coherent and on the same path, like there is an ending in sight.

, yes, there's an ending in sight, we had the ending before we started, you know, but. It's been really cool. I mean, Corinne she has the green light whenever she wants to come play in the sandbox again. she's always going to be doing beat covers for the series.

Nathan Gooden: whenever she wants to do a spinoff series I'll be happy to assist again and help and like grow the world even more.

Daniel Crary: it's clear that there's a level of care and a level of candor and, you know, we don't have talent, quote unquote, at vault aside from yourself, obviously, but I think if you were going to make a list, Corinne would be up at the top, like Corinne always does amazing work.

Daniel Crary: She's got more books coming. And it's clear when she stepped into the barbaric world, she already knew it. And her love of Conan the Barbarian is palpable in Queen of Swords. Queen of Swords, which is out now in trade. If you skipped it, you said, Oh, it's not a main barbaric book. You're a fool.

Daniel Crary: Go back and read it. It's so good.

Nathan Gooden: Yeah, and I've always said you know, Mikey and I designed all these spinoffs and all these side quests things as You don't have to read them to understand the ending, or to get the satisfaction of the ending, but the ending will be so much more rich if you read all of it and consume all of it, because there are things in these other worlds, these other stories, that they do pay off in the main story arc.

Nathan Gooden: You know, they do pay off, so it's like, if you're gonna cry, you're gonna cry twice as hard, because you remember that one thing from Queen of Swords. You remember that one thing. From, wrong kind of righteous, things like that, 

Daniel Crary: yeah, you heard it here first, folks. Not only is there an ending in mind for Barbaric, but getting there, and maybe the road getting there, will probably be a tearjerker. The book has made us laugh so hard we cry. Now we're gonna cry, maybe until we laugh? I don't know.

Nathan Gooden: Well, isn't that kind of the key to like making someone really, really, sobbing, cry, is like, you have to really feel for someone when it's their time, or if like, you know, a kingdom burns, or something like that. You have to really, feel for them, I think Mike's done a fantastic job of just like, really making characters, you know, cause we built barbaric from character first out, we started with like, we want you to love these characters and care about them and where they go.

Daniel Crary: Well, speaking of characters if somebody just, like, waved a magic wand, just handed you the keys to any character, In comics or film, TV, whatever, there was a character out there that was like, Hey Nate, do whatever you want. What character would that be?

Nathan Gooden: I can give two answers films. It would be predator, 

Daniel Crary: Oh, a Nathan Gooden Predator book would be really good.

Nathan Gooden: Give me a predator and in comics I gotta go back to my first like comic love was. Weapon X, like, I would love to do a Weapon X run of like, love first Barry Windsor Smith run of like, just how trippy the artwork was. it was so different from the Logan or the Wolverine we knew. It was like, whoa, what is this? You know, like, this dude is savage, man.

Daniel Crary: I think both of those would be Marvel. So, editors at Marvel, I hope you're listening. Get Nathan Gooden on a Weapon X reboot or a Predator book. 

Nathan Gooden: Oh my gosh, I would love that. be breaking out the old school paintbrushes for that one, man. I a run of that, I would be doing all that hand done, like

Daniel Crary: I'm already into it. You don't have to keep selling it. Now if we're going to, you know, talk about other characters and other things, you've also like, worked in a substantial amount of genres at this point. You've done sci fi books, you've done horror books, you've done fantasy books, you've done books with, you know, some comedic tone. Is there a genre you've yet to tackle that you'd like to do?

Nathan Gooden: Not necessarily one I haven't done, but sci fi, I would like to go a little deeper into a sci fi story. felt like the sci fi books I've done have been kind of short runs I'd like to do like a deeper dive into the sci-fi. 'cause like I really would love to do some unique panel work, some unique page layouts because so different from like sword and sorcery or like, I would love to do a deeper dive into sci-fi.

Nathan Gooden: Like I said, like maybe like an creature feature on a spaceship or something like that. Like that would be kind of amazing

Daniel Crary: Give it the Hayden Sherman treatment and go nuts with the panel layouts.

Nathan Gooden: , that insane person, man, those pages wasted space.

Daniel Crary: Yeah.

Nathan Gooden: First fan was right here. First fan was right here. 

Daniel Crary: you've said this to me before, you liked Wasted Space so much, you like dibs'd Mike's next book, right?

Nathan Gooden: That's exactly how it happened. Yeah, I read Wasted Space, I was working on something else, I read Wasted Space, the first issue Hayden, I was like, dude, My gosh, this is amazing. Your work's amazing and that takes Mike and I was like, Mike, you're working with me on your next book. What do you want to do? Let me know 

Daniel Crary: That's one of my favorite footnotes to the origin of Barbaric because Wasted Space was so good, we got Barbaric, guys. That's why. Okay. 

Nathan Gooden: Yeah. he and I were working on something completely different as well. Like, I knew I wanted to work with Mike and then we went through like three or four different stories and we started developing one way out. And then I was just like, from that came barbaric and we're like, there it is.

Daniel Crary: you're telling me there's like no hope of a Nathan Good neurotic, a book 

Nathan Gooden: oh no. there'll probably be that one day. I don't think it's in the near future, but it will definitely be there. pretty booked for the next couple of years, but there will be one, one day. Yes.

Daniel Crary: I mean, when you say Frank Frazetta, part of what I think is. 

Nathan Gooden: So many butts.

Daniel Crary: I mean, I'm just saying, you know, if there was a Tim Seeley, Nathan Gooden book, I wouldn't be mad about it.

Nathan Gooden: I actually talked to Tim about that one day. I'm like, hey, you know, you've been around I haven't worked with you yet So, it'll happen one day. It'll happen when the right project comes along I've been doing covers for Tim's books for a while now and I'm doing covers for like some erotic and stuff. It'll happen when it's supposed to happen You know,

Daniel Crary: We got to wait for it. There should be some anticipation. So we're close is what you're saying.

Nathan Gooden: there'll be a climax one day 

Daniel Crary: There it is.

Nathan Gooden: I Swig my water vigorously

Daniel Crary: Victory sip. Ah, man. So here we are, February, 2024, and we are on the fourth. Volume of Barbaric, what can people expect from barbaric born in blood? And I guess, is this a good spot to jump on if you haven't been reading? 

Nathan Gooden: you might have teed me up for this one. Yes. This is the perfect spot for barbaric friends to tell their friends Hey, there's a story that you should be reading you can come on now because Barbaric Born in Blood begins with a recap of all the events leading up to this.

Nathan Gooden: So we kind of took the end of Hell to Pay as this is kind of the halfway point of the story we want to tell. So this next half begins with a recap of the first half. So first time readers. You don't have to buy anything extra. You can buy the opening. You won't have the rich history that we've created, but you'll have enough that you can jump in, start reading, and you can follow from now.

Nathan Gooden: So Barbaric Born in Blood is The newest arc and basically we're focusing in on Owen, our main character, he's a barbarian that is cursed to do only good. And he absolutely hates it He wants to go murder and kill and drink and have sex with women and men and whoever.

Nathan Gooden: So he is cursed to do only good. And at this point, Is really torn between if this curse is really worth it, or should he just kind of surrender to it and just become like this lame superhero? And we really dive into his past you know, what it means to be a barbarian in this world.

Nathan Gooden: And quite literally it means being born in blood. And one of the lines that is told Owen is, you know, we were told we were born in blood. We never told it would be our own blood. dive into the really, really violent past of this world. And the different barbarian tribes you know, other readers will know steel, who was his partner who is from another tribe and the alliances they're making, everything's starting to come down now.

Nathan Gooden: And so feel like, this, Second run of barbaric is the chess game is going to start being played now. Like we've got the board set, everyone has their pieces, everything's in line. Now we start playing and we see who wins.

Daniel Crary: enticing you can feel the energy, you can feel the momentum reading this first issue of born in blood of like, oh, shits. moving

Daniel Crary: We're not going to just have romp where we get to meet another character. All of a sudden, things are moving towards some sort of end game, some sort of final point becomes pretty clear.

Nathan Gooden: yeah This is the beginning of the end as I say, this is where we will start to kill some of our darlings. kingdoms will start to burn things will start to happen and for me. This was one of the coolest villains that we've created so far in Oric who is A half barbarian, half giant who was raised in a cage and left for dead until he outgrew his cage and broke it, leaving him deformed and broken and wanting revenge on the world. Ringo Starr's line in Tombstone you know, what does he want revenge for? Being born.

Daniel Crary: damn good pitch. Nate, we should have you selling these books. I'm so excited to see. The acceleration of events as things, you know, stay funny and stay entertaining, but really move in this darker direction. What is it like to be constructing finite and, real endings for characters in a medium where stories run forever, characters die, they come back, there's not real consequences generally in traditional, , superhero storytelling. But, you know, with this, a long running indie comic, you are finding a definitive ending. What is it like to construct that for these characters?

Nathan Gooden: It's a bittersweet feeling. I just know for myself creatively. I don't want to just drag this out into oblivion. I don't want to drag it out until everyone's bored with it, including me. I've always wanted to have an ending. Okay. But I take a little bit of comfort in the fact that like, you know, Mike and I have designed this barbaric world it goes beyond Axe and Owen and Soren.

Nathan Gooden: even Owen and Axe and Soren's story is over, barbaric is not over. So this might be over this story might be over but the world of barbaric is massive So it's let me take a break for a year and let us come up something new and fresh for this world You know, there's a million characters we can come up with, Even if this is the end of these characters, it's not necessarily the end of barbaric itself you know and like as you said before even leaves more room for other artists to come in and you know, Show their spin on the world.

Nathan Gooden: Other writers come in and show their spin on the world. there will always be barbaric. There will always be some barbaric out there. It just might not have Owen Axe and Zoran in it.

Daniel Crary: Let Nathan Gooden have a break, people. let him take some rest. Give him his flowers, let him rest. Well, speaking of a million other characters, one of the fun things that fans have theorized about and really enjoyed about Barbaric is the introduction of additional talking weapons. Axe is an instant icon.

Daniel Crary: People love Axe. Bloodthirsty Jiminy Cricket. What more do you need to know? You know, he's a sentient axe named Axe. But along the way we've also met Gabar, whose soul is bound into a flaming sword. And now we've met Flail who is one of my favorite creations and so funny. is there a chance that we're going to meet any more?

Daniel Crary: Talking weapons in this go around of barbaric.

Nathan Gooden: In a word, yes. are pivotal to the ending we have in mind. you know, it Might not seem like it at the time,, Oh, they're just, you know, just sentient weapons. They just exist in this world. There's a reason and that reason is very important and it'll come out when it needs to come out for the ending.

Nathan Gooden: But, there'll be a few more.

Daniel Crary: Excellent. I speak not only for myself, but the amazing prop maker, Jesslyn Cupcake, who has made real life versions of all of these weapons so far for us. Good to know she's going to keep eating on barbaric. There's going to be more options for her to craft some stuff.

Nathan Gooden: they're quite unique weapons as well. Like, , from like action flail, polar opposites. And then like, now there's, a couple others that you're going to have very unique personalities and the people that wield them are always important. So. Yeah,

Daniel Crary: . You're going to wrap up barbaric, born in blood, and then you're going to do a book with John Jennings.

Nathan Gooden: so excited. 

Daniel Crary: you're excited. John's excited. I'm excited. Kyle's excited. Everybody's excited. can you give us a little tease about the one night house, the book you're working on with John?

Nathan Gooden: the one eyed house. Yes If there are any like monkeypaw fans listening? It's very much in that vein of storytelling It's a creature feature focused around an old plantation. I'm very excited. I've been doing a lot of research about like, creature comics, creature movies, creature films, you know, this point we're still doing a ton of research. We have the outline done and we have the, Bullet points done. Now it's in scripting phase. So yeah, I'll be starting that. Pretty soon. Scariest album to play. 

Daniel Crary: I'm so glad you're doing horror again. 

Nathan Gooden: I loved doing the Rush so much that it was like, okay, I want to do another deeper dive and that's kind of what this is going to be of like, just like, okay, so Rush was Kind of horror historical horror, you know then this is going to be like a deep dive into that of like you're really going to be like in this world

Daniel Crary: if you're a horror fan at all, or you're a barbaric fan, if you're a fan of comics, I mean, fricking John Jennings is writing it. This thing is going to be, I don't want to say instant classic, but that's the vibe I'm starting to get. , I'm personally excited for it. And I think. Anyone who enjoyed The Rush is going to lose their shit on this one.

Nathan Gooden: Yeah, I think this is going to be kind of one of those Halloween staples that becomes like every Halloween Gotta break it out and read it again it's so iconic but yet so Inventive in the storytelling John's just created something that's really taking like old tropes and it's really making them new and fresh and It's going to scare the parents off. You like the story is scary as heck.

Daniel Crary: All right. Nate, if anybody wants to meet you in person, if anybody wants to see you say hi get some barbaric stuff signed, maybe where can they catch you this year?

Nathan Gooden: StokerCon, San Diego, ALA, San Diego San Diego Comic Con, New York Comic Con. I believe that's it for now and possibly Supercon. 

Daniel Crary: Yeah.

Nathan Gooden: that's still in the works. So that'll be the shows for now. It might change, might not.

Daniel Crary: you know, In the meantime, folks, if you're not going to make it to one of those shows, it's okay. We know you still love Barbaric, but be sure to pick up brand new issue, Born in Blood, number one.

Daniel Crary: And, get it to your friends, like Nate said, this is a good jumping on point. Let them come join the Barbaric party.

Nathan Gooden: good jumping on point. And this is one of the coolest villains, I think to this point up in barbaric orcas King orc is the coolest character we've created so far. I believe so.

Daniel Crary: Alright, go check it out. And you know, any aspiring artists out there, go relisten to this episode. Nate gave some pretty solid advice. he got a little bit of an art masterclass here. So, you know, be sure to take it to heart. He knows what he's talking about. Nathan Gooden, thanks, man. Thank you so much.

Daniel Crary: This was a great talk.

Nathan Gooden: Dan, Kyle, thank you so much for having me. Until next time, next book, one at house, maybe.

Daniel Crary: Yeah, let's do it. Let's get you and John on here for One Eyed House. we'll talk horror. We'll talk blaxploitation. We'll talk the history of creature features. Yeah.

Nathan Gooden: that, that guy will be a great episode, podcast episode.

Daniel Crary: All right, I'll CC you on the email when I ask him. You can put some peer pressure on. 

Mhm.

Daniel Crary: We'll say this for Nathan Gooden. He's anything but an axehole. See what I did there? That's a callback. a comedy thing because he said that earlier. This episode was produced by the axhole himself, Kyle Foucher. Hosted and co produced. And whatever other titles I feel like giving myself Daniel Crary. The logo was designed by one who's never an axhole. Mr. Tim Daniel, as social media support, was provided by Britta Bisher. The Vault Cast is a copyrighted production of Vault Comics, copyright 2024, all rights reserved. Axe holes.